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For instance, if RED develops an X version of Dragon (DX) like they did with the Mysterium sensor, there's been no official word from RED to indicate there wouldn't also be a variant for Scarlet with lesser specs. Between the BT Scarlet and purchasing things through that forum, I saved myself roughly $10k. I think it's also important to note that you keep your current camera if you upgrade to SCARLET DRAGON, but you are trading it in if you decide to go to EPIC-X and then EPIC DRAGON. I think RED has always been very good about trying to give back to current users, but depending on when you purchased, you may be paying more than other users. I bought it. Imagine I have a Scarlet, if i upgrade it to a Dragon Scarlet, can i later on upgrade it yet again to a Dragon Epic? Even though you're paying the price of the camera for an upgrade as a SCARLET owner (and half or less than half as an EPIC owner), I actually still think it's a good deal. Nobody gave a crap about the D-21 with its 11 stops of DR. Arri went back to the drawing board and delivered. April 15, 2013 at 11:14AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. Instead of making accessories obsolete, RED proudly takes great care in making your equipment lasts as long as possible. So what happens if you decide to cancel your order if you don't have money by the time your place in line comes up? April 15, 2013 at 4:52AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM, April 15, 2013 at 7:33AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM, April 15, 2013 at 5:51PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. I hope this leads to a great trend towards modularity in components. It was 18 stops in early tests on 20-stop chart in which one stop was full clipping and one in the darks were buried in grain, 16 stops on the final specs looks like conservative number to me. surely they would have handed the camera to someone as an opportunity to shoot something? Hopefully with the new sensor REDs will be a little more forgiving. April 14, 2013 at 11:03PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. April 15, 2013 at 11:37AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM, April 15, 2013 at 12:16PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. June 3, 2013 at 8:55PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM, This was an excellent read, Joe. April 15, 2013 at 3:51PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. The incredible thing is that the Dragon sensor is an upgrade. April 16, 2013 at 2:33PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. Many have talked about SCARLET owners getting screwed, but getting into an EPIC-X from SCARLET is right around the same price as buying new, and much, much cheaper if you are a BT SCARLET owner. Regarding the trade in program they announced on NYE, the president said "Scarlet users should be doing backflips. Now it's $19,000 and you only get a 90 day warranty. Couldn't agree more. We all love the camera, but you sound more like a fanboy than someone who can relate to a perfectly reasonable complaint. Your only option is to sell your camera if you want something newer with added capabilities. April 15, 2013 at 8:34AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. I totally agree. Pretty awesome. the scarlet was going to get an upgrade path that was going to be expensive so im stoked to have an upgrade path to scarlet dragon. :), April 14, 2013 at 11:37PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. Again, this is another case where you will be out of luck, because any brains that have been executed are only eligible for the upgrades once, and if an order is canceled, the brains will not be available for any future trade-in programs. I'm talking about on major productions. April 15, 2013 at 3:59AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. New color science. We still shoot on a R1MX, and plan to do so for some time. If sony started an upgrade program where a new sensor costs 20% more than the entire camera sold 3 months ago, RED users would be mocking Sony. April 15, 2013 at 4:31AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM, Yeah be really great to see some footage and for comparisons sake, some side by sides with the "old" epic, April 15, 2013 at 4:35AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. We already know that they need to separate the Epic from the Scarlet, and we get that... but were not talking about some cheap-ass camera. what they thought would take a couple weeks is now months. Can't wait to see some real footage from this thing. I imagine since they have not dropped the SCARLET price yet, prices should still be up there for used brains, and as far as the warranty goes, you'll only get full RED Armor with a new camera. It's hard to complain about such a wonderfully awesome piece of technology. Unless you have clients you know will help recoup the costs of a new sensor-- save your $10,000. Based on what Jim Jannard posted at one point, with the new sensor, even at 6K, since the image is cleaner, the REDCODE settings are more efficient, and may not necessarily take up much more space. The rolling shutter is completely unacceptable in a professional cinema camera, and Red cameras are some of the worse offenders in this area (in my experience). But like you guys have said, definitely need to wait and see the results...like RED always says, things are subject to change. Embarrassing thinking back to NAB in April, them doing the sensor upgrades at the show as if they were ready. It's plain and simple - a camera, it requires an intelligent human being to operate it. Brent at RED says they're going to start figuring all that stuff out this week so we should know relatively soon. Just like how the original RED ONE MX from 2009 is still a viable camera system in 2013, I see it being an excellent option for many years to come (even with new options from other camera makers). I'd love to hear your rationale. April 15, 2013 at 7:25AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. I imagine it will go quickly, so any interested parties would be advised to contact me asap. they shot the last episode of House M.D. I assume it's because they start to get a better feel for the camera's strengths and weaknesses and adjust accordingly, like you would with any piece of gear. ZTE nubia Red Magic 5G Android smartphone. I know cost may be a factor but if you photograph babies, toddlers or animals for a living (or in addition to your video work), being able to roll at 6K for 15 or 20 minutes at a time would mean you'd virtually never miss that priceless expression or pose. It's 100+ pages on what you need to know to make beautiful, inexpensive movies using a DSLR. They haven't shipped the early cameras back to users yet according to what they said in the forum. We know RED is upgrading sensors for current EPIC and SCARLET owners, but what exactly will this cost, and might it actually be more cost-effective to sell your camera and buy DRAGON brand new? While I love the images of the Alexa, there's just no way anyone beyond rental houses can afford to stay absolutely current given the price tag of even a basic Alexa. How does a person getting their hopes up based on Reduser speculation translate into me being a fanboy? From the way I understand it, warranties will carry over only for the parts that were purchased with the original warranty with your camera. You missed it. The look was so odd I was forced to look up what it was shot on. If you put a 2k value on a 2 yr warranty as opposed to a 90 day warranty- the actual RED buy back price for your Scarlet is a sad $3,000, especially for those who just paid 9k just a yr ago. Joe, I think a leap of logic has been made by many people on Reduser. Having FF35 sensor, medium-format sensor, even bigger ? It looks like RED will begin upgrades for SCARLET users in July, but as with anything, these dates could move, and it's not clear when EPIC-X upgrades may start (probably sooner). Stranger Things Camera Package: RED Epic Dragon (Season 1) RED Weapon Helium (Season 2) Leica Summilux-C lenses; Redcode RAW (6K and 8K) Master of None. People saw "much like" and assumed identical - an unfortunate leap of logic. I've recently been given the ability of selling my upgraded, (upgraded being the key word there), Scarlet Red Dragon without my crew going bonkers. As of right now, the price for current EPIC-X and EPIC-M cameras is $17,000 and $22,500, respectively, down from $19K and $24K. Shoots 5k to resolve a true 4k image with an ISO 2000 rated sensor. Do you think RED will drop The prices of the current RED epic or RED scarlet this year? But in real world applications- no one can tell the difference between 4K and 6K- even if they had a 4K TV- still can't tell the difference. If you notice, the quote states "much like we did for the R1...". But my camera has already paid for itself, and I think it makes gorgeous images, but seeing even better resolution and DR are fantastic. I don't envision other companies doing sensor upgrades like this. 95% won't. Actually it's not "just for marketing and all about money," but... whateva. I can identify with some of the frustration of being promised a somewhat future-proof & upgradeable camera. Subscribe to receive the free PDF! April 15, 2013 at 7:14AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. Since that is not going to happen, I have another solution for RED to consider. You're forgetting about a major aspect of the RED camera philosophy: the STILLS part of the DSMC system. If Sony started pre-selling 4k TVs at NAB, but couldn't show you an image on the screen-- pretty sure you would've seen a bunch of articles questioning the logic. The camera offers a 6:5 aspect ratio for each resolution. April 15, 2013 at 7:37AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. As you mention above - the color science, greater DR, and ISO sensitivity more than meet my needs. Hell, it could be even more than 2-3 years (not unlikely at all) before I even finish a project @ 4k. Just because specs changed doesn’t mean gear has to. They probably may be able to shoot with some kind of preview but not to develop it properly until the new color science arrives. If they said you have to order in the next few weeks, I might call that desperation, but RED has been very lenient on these upgrade times and it's likely you'll have through the end of this year to elect upgrade your camera based on how long it may take to complete upgrades. April 14, 2013 at 11:41PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. Some people still push it a bit too far in my opinion but that may just be artistic differences. Nothing new from RED-- they've been sticking their foots in their months for years. That will keep it in the game. Fast forward 4 mnths, for us Scarlet owners to get to full 6k Dragon, and keep our bodies upgradeable (which is what we were told we could do), RED is currently offering us around a $4,000 trade in for your Scarlet. Yeah SCARLET DRAGON will probably be the end of the line for that particular system, but I can't see anything else coming along in the next 3-5 years that absolutely blows it away. I doubt it's actually going to have that much. And now that the Blackmagics are out, for 4K with normal framerates with normal sensor, I have this option too. June 2, 2013 at 8:24AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. I remotely started and stopped recording with the REDmote and it was much easier than trying to shoot stills. It's just a sad day if you're a Scarlet owner and was dreaming about owning a Dragon that could shoot 6K. April 15, 2013 at 11:41AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM, April 15, 2013 at 11:31AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. April 16, 2013 at 6:53PM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. The cheapest way to get into DRAGON if you don't buy a brand new EPIC-X DRAGON is if you happened to get in on the Battle Tested SCARLET deal. At least two of them were almost certainly shot green screen and the last one that jumped out at me was shot outdoors where they seemed to push the exposure on the skin a bit much for my taste. Just an insane sensor. 16 stops, 2000 asa... hard to miss... April 15, 2013 at 6:03AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. Spending 10K just because of some released specs is crazy to say the least. April 15, 2013 at 7:19AM, Edited September 4, 8:21AM. 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